Best 4 wheel drive winter beater?

"Harrycarry250" (Harrycarry250) 10/06/2013 at 12:10 • Filed to: None

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Looking for a four wheel drive winter beater, preferably something with a low range transfer case but anything will do if it's the right price. Looking and some short wheelbase SUV's and Subaru station wagons... What do yall think? btw, this car will live in NYC and go upstate on trips, but basically will be a daily driver. I'd like to do that maintenance myself so I am leaning against Subaru's as I have more experience with domestic vehicles.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 12:30

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A plain old Cherokee might be a better choice than a GC. It's simpler, so it'll likely be cheaper and there's less stuff that could go wrong. If you can find a Wrangler with a hard top you should take it into consideration as well. Our '91 YJ is a pile of junk but it's still pretty much unstoppable when the going gets tough.

Whatever you might get, though, you should invest in a decent set of snow tires, especially since you're going to upstate NY. Good treads can make almost any car driveable in the snow. I would know, I took my old Geo Metro up to northern NH in the dead of winter and was able to get up hills that other cars were sliding back down.

GhostZ > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 12:43

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80s or earlier Jeep CJ. It might be a bit pricey, but you won't lose any money on it (it might even appreciate) it is probably omitted from any local safety/emissions requirements, and can handle anything the road can throw at it. Plus, there's tons of aftermarket and cheap parts available.

The wheelbase is also very short, and the car is (generally) light compared to most 4000lb SUVs.

Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jee…

Besides, it won't be much older than a early 90s Cherokee, and will hold together better.

EDIT: Just make sure you get one with an I6 or AMC V8 (or a 302 swap) and avoid the Iron Duke I4 like the plague.

Harrycarry250 > GhostZ 10/06/2013 at 13:16

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Only problem is that a Jeep CJ is not that practical for anything besides off roading, especially the earlier ones.

Hoccy > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 13:24

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Anything Japanese and late 80's early 90's. Old enough to be simple, but new enough to have some modern luxury and safety features.

Cars like the Subaru Legacy and L-series, Mitsubishi Galant and Toyota Tercel/Corolla 4wd are cars I have good experiences with. Steady and safe when you drive normal, and easy to control on the limit.

GhostZ > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 13:37

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Define "practical". I see plenty of space for passengers and cargo, and lots of utility and usability on the road. I also see reliable parts and a good community, so I don't know how you could get more practical.

GhostZ > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 13:44

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Also, if you're looking for a soft ride and more creature comforts without paying more, you could upgrade to a newer Wrangler/YJ, but you'll lose in reliable parts and resale value what you'll gain in comfort.

Harrycarry250 > GhostZ 10/06/2013 at 13:47

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I would define a practical car that needs to be capable off road and also double as a daily driver for city use by...

Passengers, preferably 5-7

Cargo, needs to be able to haul furniture. Not a pickup.

AWD, for the snow

Good on the highway

I like wagons

Harrycarry250 > Hoccy 10/06/2013 at 13:48

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I love Subaru's but I'd hate to spend hours changing the spark plugs.

GhostZ > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 14:08

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Okay, those criteria are a bit more strict than what I was thinking (I don't usually deal in 5-7 passenger cars. I hate people.), enough that I'm not even sure a Grand Cherokee qualifies on the furniture department (depends on whether or not the back seats fold flat or can be removed, or if they just lean).

That being said, very, very, few cars that can fit 5-7 passengers and be good on the highway is going to be able to off-road too, without being some massive behemoth jacked a few feet up in the air, or a pickup.

It's too bad that the Ford Flex isn't a little older, it has been depreciating fast and you could pick up a '05-'06 model pretty cheap, and they fit all of your criteria. That is, if they made an '05-'06 model. Even 2009 models are still going for 10k+.

The Freestyle, which came before, was based on the Taurus sedan, whereas the Flex is based on the Edge Crossover. They're still a bit pricey for a winter beater.

There's always the Volvo 850 AWD, if you can find a good one.

I'd recommend a Panther platform car, but they won't fit your furniture problem. They excel in every other aspect though, if you'd be willing to give up the large space Though, they do have quite a bit of cargo area in the trunk. But they don't have a large open area where you could stuff a chair, table, or small couch like a wagon does.

I have no real recommendations after these that aren't a truck.

Dinger loves his ranger. > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 14:45

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Not biased or anything, but if you find one for a decent price (and don't mind p/u's) a 4wd Ranger would work well. Small, fairly reliable, and simple to work on when something does happen because they were the same thing for like 15 years.

offroadkarter > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 15:17

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Ford bronco, its big but its short so its easy to manuver

911e46z06 > Harrycarry250 10/06/2013 at 15:18

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K5 Blazer if you can find one that hasn't been modded to death. Doesn't get any easier to work on than that 350, and it'll go anywhere you need to go. Or if you want to go super badass, you could go with an m1009 with the diesel and 3/4 ton frame. Only problem is for a winter truck the heater is a bit inadequate.

If you can't find a good Blazer, a Bronco is almost as good, and dirt cheap.

Harrycarry250 > GhostZ 10/06/2013 at 17:04

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The Volvo 850 AWD would be IDEAL. I was honestly considering getting a Ford Town Car in all black but those who would also drive the car hate them. I know I could disregard there opinion but I'll do that as a last resort, lol.

Thanks for the recs, I am also thinking of a 90's Tahoe.

JEM > Harrycarry250 10/07/2013 at 10:20

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Hard to beat the Grand Cherokee for what you want, especially if you want something that's going to be comfortable on the inside. That and there are 1000s of used ones for sale here in New England. There's a used car dealership near me that has them as over half his inventory. I'd say find one with the 4.0 Six if you can.

Bruno Martini > Harrycarry250 10/07/2013 at 11:55

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Jeep ZJ. No questions asked. No fucks given and it will literaly go anywhere you please. Get one with the bullet proof I6 and ignore any electronic gremlins.

Winter storm? no problems.

Post apocalyptic radiocative wasteland? No problem.

Zombie attack? Just use the blunt end to make zombies into paste. No problem.

Those things are like rolling fists. Chuck Norris does not fear anything but a jeep ZJ.

Destructive Tester > Harrycarry250 10/08/2013 at 15:08

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If you can find one, you'll be hard-pressed to find a better winter vehicle than a Subaru Loyale wagon. I've lived in snow belt states my whole life and it is the hands-down best winter driving vehicle I've ever driven. In addition to the sure-footedness, it was well balanced so it gave fairly neutral handling in slick conditions as well as the bonus of having selectable AWD/FWD for better fuel economy when the roads were dry. The selectable drive had me getting mileage in the high 30s. I miss that car...

Destructive Tester > Harrycarry250 10/08/2013 at 15:09

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How does it take you hours to change the plugs? They have been pretty accessable on both of mine. Unless you are talking FA ones...

Madd Max > Harrycarry250 10/08/2013 at 17:25

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Cherokee or first gen Grand Cherokee.

DavidHH > Harrycarry250 10/10/2013 at 13:42

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Audi 4000 Quattro

The only 4WD car that has an inline drive train, 4wheel disk brakes, etc. and yet doesn't seem to need much service ever. More reliable than 99% of the 2WD cars on the road. 84s are most reliable and slowest. 85-87s have more toys and are faster. And none came with an automatic transmission.

DavidHH > Hoccy 10/10/2013 at 13:49

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What about the Subaru head gaskets, and fires?

"Anything Japanese"? What about parts? (I've seen prices for OEM run over 10 times what you would expect to pay, if the dealer is the only option)

Hoccy > DavidHH 10/10/2013 at 14:10

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My experience is that japanese cars are more reliable than others. But when things first break, parts are a bit more expensive than on cars produced closer to you. Not 10 times more (at least not for me), but slightly more.

I have close to no experience with american cars, only partly owned a 1981 Chevy van once (had a lot of fun with it, but wasn't a good car), but they don't have a good reputation here. At least not the newer models.

Hoccy > DavidHH 10/10/2013 at 14:10

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My experience is that japanese cars are more reliable than others. But when things first break, parts are a bit more expensive than on cars produced closer to you. Not 10 times more (at least not for me), but slightly more.

I have close to no experience with american cars, only partly owned a 1981 Chevy van once (had a lot of fun with it, but wasn't a good car), but they don't have a good reputation here. At least not the newer models.

DavidHH > Hoccy 10/10/2013 at 15:08

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$400 for a Forrester outer tie rod end. $300 for a Honda Civic ball joint (which is pressed in the lower control arm). I consider this over ten times as expensive as domestic.

I would say that Japanese cars have a better fit and finish, and better plastic. But more reliable, I really doubt that is true, if you consider the same years production. The myth requires you to compare an old domestic to your new Japanese model, which is the argument I have heard too many times to count. I've even heard of a Vega compared to Honda CRV by a relative who thinks domestic is junk. But then she thinks that UAW workers are drunk morons. And so she pays a fortune on Honda service, over and over again like $1300 for a rear wiper motor.

But if you compare similar years of production, this fallacy of the argument becomes apparent. You say you owned a bad 1981 GMC van? Compare it to the Subbie an employer of mine had. Two failed head gaskets sets, broken rear end, two fires, the last one taking out a few parked customer's cars. Problem was a fuel leak and once the tire caught fire, it was all over.

No matter were you live, your domestic cars are often the best option, unless they just don't make what you want. With that said we have 2 audi 4000Qs, a vanagon westy, and a econoline. And the econoline is by far the best of the four autos.

Harrycarry250 > DavidHH 10/10/2013 at 15:08

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Now that sounds good, may have to skimp on the wagon idea for one of these.

Hoccy > DavidHH 10/10/2013 at 15:45

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The Chevrolet Van thing was only to illustrate that I have little experience with American cars. Didn't drive it much at all, maybe 2000km at most. I have a lot more experience with japanese cars, since that's been the first choice of cars in my family for 20 years. Can't recall any major problem with either the 1986 L-series 1.8, 1993 Legacy 2.0 or the 2001 Legacy 2.0 that we've had. My Galant had some more problems (waterpump, starter motor and clutch), but that had quite a hard life as well.

They don't make cars where I live. The only alternative I'd consider better (in my situation) for parts availibility, prices and reliability is an old Volvo. But those aren't 4x4 before the 850/v70, and are very rare. I can see that prices for parts for American cars are cheaper in America, since the market is a hundred times bigger there.

I don't like VAG-products much either, so I'm not surprised the Econoline is better.

DavidHH > Hoccy 10/10/2013 at 18:15

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My Audi 4000Q has an odometer that has been stuck on 225k miles for a decade, but still has the original engine, and even original head gasket even. But the E-150 went 520k miles before needing an engine rebuild and a rebuilt transmission, due to 2nd gear syncromesh, so it's better. I was once an import mechanic, and found that Japanese cars are overrated, expensive and difficult to service. I'd take a new Golf over a new Honda any day and I don't actually like VW after they failed to honor their warenty on the Vanagon Westy.

DavidHH > Harrycarry250 10/10/2013 at 18:20

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The catch is like any 26 to 29 year old car, they are getting hard to find. But no automaker has made a 4WD car this good, period.